I'm Not Lyin', I'm Sion!

An interview with John Paul Pirolli, self-proclaimed leader of the Priory of Sion in the American Continents
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by, Tracy Twyman

The Reverend John Paul Pirolli (aka "Daemon Magus") claims to be the legitimate head of the American faction of the Priory of Sion, whose mysteries Dagobert's Revenge is dedicated to. Here we explore his claims for the purposes of journalism, without making any claims ourselves as to the veracity of his. You are encouraged to make your own assessment.

DR: I first encountered you on the "Expanding Awareness" radio program with Victor Enckus. I was there to talk about the Priory of Sion, and you called up, and said that you were actually the leader of the North American faction of the Priory of Sion. Now sir, tell me exactly what is the North American faction, in what way is it different from the European faction, and how you became a member.

JP: It's actually North and South America. We are the second order of the Priory of Our Lady of Sion. Like most monastic orders, like the Franciscans and the Dominicans, there's first orders, and second orders, and third orders, et cetera. We are the Second Order of the Priory of our Lady of Sion here in the United States, given to me by the then Head of the Priory, Karl le Fleur. A little background on what had happened is this. Years ago, I was a member of another magical order. I left the order with lots of titles, and one of my titles was "Priest of E.G.C.", that is, Ecclesiastica Gnostica Catholica.

DR: So this order that you were a member of, that would've been the O.T.O., now, wouldn't it?

JP: I try to avoid giving them any publicity. I don't like Black Lodgers. What had happened was, I was made a Priest of the E.G.C., and when I left the order, I had been ordained, so I kept the title. Another person ran into me who wanted to be a priest, and asked if I knew of any place where he could get ordained. And I had read about this other order based out of New Hampshire at the time called the Independent Catholic Church. Well I went there with my ordination papers from the E.G.C. and for some strange reason, they automatically accepted me.

DR: Is membership in this order supposed to be exclusive?

JP: Well, yeah. We are actual priests. We are an actual ministry. The Second Order is a religious order.

DR: So you have Church every week?

JP: No, we've had, but we don't do it that often, 'cause we don't need a church building, 'cause God is there wherever you are at. You know, wherever there's a stone, we're there. Wherever there's a person, we're there.

DR: But, we're talking Catholic ceremonies, as in Communion and such?

JP: Yes. Let me try to explain in more details what happened. When I became a member of the Independent Catholic Church, I had my Order that I had started years ago in Kentucky known as the Sword and Shield. Well, I showed my Sword and Shield initiations to the Bishop who brought me into the Independent Catholic Church, and he was totally blown away. I then gave him a copy of the paperwork with my Coat of Arms, and shortly thereafter I was informed that he was a member of the Second Order of the Priory.

DR: Did you at that time know what the Priory of Sion was?

JP: Oh yes. I'd studied about it for years, and I'd always wanted to be a part of it. One of the reasons I joined the OTO was to be a Templar. I thought it was the Templars, but as I found out later, far cry. But the thing is, I wanted the religious aspect. And when I hooked up with the Bishop who brought me into the Independent Catholic Church, he checked out my Coat of Arms, he checked out my family name, he checked out the paperwork, checked out my ordinations. I was given paperwork by the Patriarch, Karl le Fleur, making me the Head of... well I'll give you the exact title. I have a copy of my ordination papers right in front of me. "The Ordo Syphilis (?) Gnostic Patriarchy of North and South America. Let it be known to all that we, exercising the certitudes of our authority as Gnostic Patriarchs of the Knights of the Temple, Keepers of the Grail, do hereby establish in perpetuity The Ordo Syphilis (?) Gnostic Catholic Patriarchy of North and South America. Furthermore, we appoint His Excellency (my real church name), Cardinal, as Protector and Governor of this new established jurisdiction."

DR: So you didn't have to go through any preliminary degrees?

JP: No, first I had to be a priest, then from Priest to Arch-Priest, then from Arch-Priest to Bishop, Bishop to Arch-Bishop, Arch-Bishop to Cardinal.

DR: How many years did this take?

JP: About five years.

DR: And was there ever any doubt throughout this entire process about the legitimacy of this? Did you have any doubt that these people were the actual Priory of Sion?

JP: They knew enough material, and they proved to me in more ways than you can imagine who they were.

DR: Since you had read Holy Blood, Holy Grail, and I presume, The Messianic Legacy as well...

JP: I've read all of Lincoln's books, and God knows how many others.

DR: So obviously you were aware of the implications that are made in those books that this group is tied in with the CIA and a bunch of other clandestine organizations, such as MI5, and seems to be involved sort of spy mastery. Did this intrigue you or scare you?

JP: Well, when I was first brought in, the Bishop kept making cracks about, you know, "Those with the broken noses." Being Italian, I like to make a joke by calling it the "Mothers and Fathers Italian Association." (MAFIA, get it?) I didn't really care. Because I wasn't part of that organization. I was part of the religious organization. The Priory is broken up in about three different ways. You have your monarchist types who want to bring back the One Rule of One King, you know, the Merovingian dynasty. You have the power-hungry P2 people (Propaganda Due) who are trying to control the banks and the money and the CIA and all that happy stuff. Then you have the third group. which is the religious group. We're Gnostic Hermetics. We're a priest class. I don't care who the king or the President is. I'd rather be getting closer to God. Helping my family, and my family is the world.

DR: If these organizations are all split up, do they have any connection to one another?

JP: Oh yeah. They're all connected some place in Europe. That's one of the reasons I became Head here in the United States. What had happened was, I was with the group that was heavy on the religious side, and the man who was Head of the Priory retired. He got replaced by a Bishop Andre Barbou. Bishop Andre died. His assistant was my Patriarch. Well, when he became head of the Priory, he was trying to bring the Priory back to the religious idea, back to that Cathar, back to the Gnosis, back to the Hermetic side, the Rosicrucian side, the spiritual side. And he didn't last too long. They gave him an ultimatum: either retire, or he would be permanently retired their way. But before he retired, he gave me his title as Head of North and South America in perpetuity. Which means that no matter what those people in Europe say, my papers last indefinitely.

DR: So are there people in Europe who doubt your legitimacy or don't take you seriously?

JP: There's one person in Europe who definitely agrees with what I'm saying. Not only that, he's promising me cash and things that come out of the Priory funds, which, I mean, I wasn't that interested in the first place. I just want to do God's work. My theory is this: most of us people in the Second Order of the Priory believe that we're all gods, because Jesus Christ said "Our Father who art in Heaven." He didn't say "my Father." If he is the son of God, that makes us all gods. Or to quote Crowley in his Gnostic Mass, "There is no part of me that is not of the gods."

DR: Speaking of Jesus, does he have any part in the religious teachings of your order? Is his bloodline important to you guys at all?

JP: I certainly hope. He's Big Daddy. If you check through my Coat of Arms and my bloodline you'll find out my distant relatives were the keepers of the castle at Montsegur in France, that last holdout of the Cathar. My bloodline is of the Grail.

DR: So you're saying that the bloodline of Christ is the Grail. What is the significance then of the bloodline of Christ? Why should we take that to be more significant than the bloodline of any other person?

JP: Well, he is the Son of God. Doesn't that give a special reverence to those people who are sons of his?

DR: So you believe that, then - that he was literally the Son of God?

JP: Most assuredly.

DR: As in born of a virgin?

JP: I don't believe that, and I don't believe in Santa Claus either. You gotta remember, the person who kept harping the Virgin Birth was Luke. Luke was a Greek physician. As a Greek physician, he was trained in the stories of all these virgin births, like Perseus, for example, and Hercules' virgin birth. Zeus was messing around a lot if you get my meaning. So you have all these virgin births, and he wanted to tie into that mystique. If you look at John and Mark, you don't find any of this virgin birth stuff. That's Luke, and Luke was Greek, and he wanted to tie the story in. He also read Roman literature. Now there's a story in Luke where you find out how Christ took demons and put them into a pig, and the pig ran into the ocean and died. That's from a Roman novel called 'The Holy Ass" or "The Sacred Ass" by Lucretius.

DR: Sounds like a good story.

JP: Luke was with Paul. Now Paul never met Christ. He was going across the desert, chasing Christians, had a sunstroke, fell off his horse: "I saw God!" And if you read his material, Paul is the most unbelievable sexist you will ever come upon. And his apostle, the gospel writer, was Luke. So if you want to believe fantasy, believe in the Virgin Birth. In the old days, when I was still with the other order, I was heavy into the darker side, and I would go up to Jesus freaks and ask them a classic question: "If Jesus died for me, knowing what we know now with medicine, what killed him?" They said, "He died on the cross." I said, "Of what, lack of blood? I don't think so." "Shock", they'd keep talking. "Suffocation." "No, they didn't break his legs." You know what I'm saying.

DR: So you don't believe he died on the cross.

JP: To quote the only witness that was there, being John, "He gave up the spirit." He gave up the titles. He became man. He lost the spirit.

DR: And what was that spirit?

JP: You could call it The Christos. You could call it Emmanuel. You could call it the God-spirit, that part of him that was God. That's why, if you read the Book of the Law by Crowley it says, "I will peck out his eyes as he dies on the cross." Yeah, if you believe he died on the cross.

DR: When did he have these children that the bloodline comes from? Was that prior to the crucifixion.

JP: Oh yeah. Most assuredly.

DR: So then the children that he sired...

JP: Child, one child, a male child.

DR: OK, one? Then he would've been sired during his "God stage."

JP: You see, the thing is, anybody who knows Hebraic law, who actually goes into these old stories can answer a lot of these questions. Like "How do we know he was married?" Because they called him "Rabbi", and by old law, to be a rabbi you had to be married. "How do we know he had a beard?" To be a rabbi, you had to wear a beard. The husband's job was to supply wine at the wedding. What did he do at the Feast of Cana? He supplied wine at the wedding. So we know he was married, we know he had at least one kid, and Mary and Joseph of Arimathea and a few others took off tot he Spanish/French area where most of our qaballah studies started. So, we know that. There's too many sites in that area for Magdalen.

DR: But what establishes the divinity of Christ?

JP: Well, we're all divine.

DR: Then the bloodline could come from some guy name Moe who lived 2000 years ago. That just doesn't make it very special to me. I do believe that the bloodline is special, I just don't believe that that's an adequate explanation. It seems like Jesus himself must have had a lineage that was even more significant, and it must go back even further.

JP: Mary's father was a priest in Jerusalem, and that traces back. In the beginning of the Book of Mark you'll find that. It traces all the way back to Moses. So we have a Messianic bloodline that goes back hundreds and hundreds of years before Christ. So he was of that royal family, the family of David.

DR: So it goes back to David. Well, I guess it's founded on the idea that the Jews are the "Chosen People" and so their kings are therefore the most valued and the most important, am I correct? I mean it seems to all boil down to this Semitic bloodline.

JP: Yeah, I guess you could say that. See, I have no problem with having a Semitic bloodline. In our organization, we have two groups. We have those who want to be priests and deacons, that's the P2 branch. But actually, before you do that, you have to have three degrees from our other order, which is the Sword and Shield. The Sword and Shield is an order founded back in 1972 at the University of Kentucky. I was taking classes on the history of magick, and in my class we had a Discordian member of the Church of Satan out of Louisville. He finally introduced me to Aquino, a real dweeb. And we had a Gardnerian witch, and I was a Thelemite, and we used to have battles in class for days and days and days until we realized that we were all saying the same thing, just using different language. So we started invoking our new saint, Saint Lenny Bruce. We believe we're not anti-Semitic, we're anti-Semantic. So if the bloodline is Jewish, it doesn't bother me.

DR: Well, it doesn't bother me either, but it just makes me wonder. See, I don't find them to be more significant than all other cultures, but in fact less significant than many other cultures. I don't doubt that the bloodline of David is significant. I just think that it gets its significance from something larger than that. And I suppose if you were a member of the Priory of Sion you would probably know something about that.

JP: Well, the thing is this. Being Priory 2, I'm more interested in the religious aspect, and most people are hooked onto the bloodline. They're into the political aspect, you know: "Who has the right to be king?" I'd rather be an Arch-Bishop than a king. I'd rather be working with people, feeding the homeless, rather than beating my head over who's going to be the next king of England, or whatever. I really don't care about the politics.

DR: Then let's talk about the religious aspects. What is it that makes this religion different from others. I assume what you're practicing now, you believe to be that same religion practiced by Christ himself.

JP: Oh yes.

DR: And this was not, I assume, Orthodox Judaism, correct?

JP: Christ practiced the Essene belief, he practiced the belief of the Nazarenes. Now the Nazarenes were traced all the way back to Egypt, and they would form hostels in caves all over the East where they could link back to Egypt. That's why when Christ was born, and Mary and Joseph had to make their escape, they escaped to Egypt. Moses was a Jew who was accepted as a son of a Pharaoh. Remember they found him in the little raft, and they took him in, and he became their son. As the son of a Pharaoh, he would be trained in the magick of the Great White Brotherhood. He was trained in the Temple.

DR: You've gotta be real specific about that. I think a lot of people have this idea of Egyptian religion as having been the same throughout all of the dynasties, and everyone practiced the same thing. This Great White Brotherhood you're talking about is something separate and different.

JP: No no no. The Great White Brotherhood goes back even further. You go way back to the ancient times - you could call it Atlantean, whatever that greater race was, the Gods of ancient Egypt were real people. Now they formed this set of beliefs millenniums ago. So you have Horus, and Ra, and all these people were real. Now as the centuries progressed, each town had their own version of Ra. In some places there was Thoth. In some places there was Tahuti. You see what I'm saying? Everybody had their own private god-force as part of this chain of command. Then out of Greece came a great man: Hermes Trismegistus. Hermes had the philosophy of the Greeks, while the Egyptians at the time had the nuts and bolts: you know, the algebra, the chemical knowledge, that whole thing. When Hermes came to Egypt, he was so revered, they called him Tahuti, they called him Thoth.

DR: They identified him with this god that they already had.

JP: And he reorganized the whole belief into this Great White Brotherhood. So this is after the pyramids were built. He formed this belief combining Egyptian mathematics and Greek philosophy. This is what was taught to the priest class during the time of Ramses, and Ramses is the Pharaoh during the time of Moses. Moses, being considered the son of the Pharaoh, was trained in this belief.

DR: And what is the belief?

JP: The combination of science and religion and philosophy into a core belief. I'll give you an example. Moses knew that every time you have a red tide, you can't eat the shellfish. The Red Sea was famous for red tide.

DR: And this was what, bacteria?

JP: Right. So when he told the Pharaoh how the ocean was going to turn red with blood, it was the red tide, which he had calculated being a Hermetic, being a mathematician, being what we would now call a qaballist. He knew the red tide was going to poison the water. To this day Orthodox Jews can't eat shellfish, because of the red tide. Moses, being a magician, knew that at a certain time every year, the winds off the Sinai would blow across the "Reed Sea." Now, he didn't cross the Red Sea, because if you look at a map of modern-day Egypt, you will find that the town where the Jews were kept was over 300 miles from the Red Sea. But they were right across from the Reed Sea, which is where the canal is now. Moses knew that at a certain time every year, the wind comes off the Sinai, causing the reeds to matte, and opening up the sea, so that he could walk across.

DR: Now this is weird, because I imagine that the Hebrew word for "reed" isn't "reed." So how did the word "reed" become "red" if it wasn't "reed" to begin with?

JP: Because you're talking 40 generations of going from there to the Holy Land, being told and retold and retold, all they could see to their right as they traveled is the Red Sea. It takes 40 generations for them to get to the Holy Land. Why 40? Because 40, qaballistically, is the letter Mem. Mem equals water.

DR: And the Flood lasted 40 days and 40 nights.

JP: Ah! What did it rain? It didn't rain rocks, it rained water. 40. So the people followed the water route around the Sinai, with the Red Sea to their right, and the desert to their left. Now what do you have in the Bible? It talks about fire, which is the desert, leading them on the left side, while the whirlwinds of the water were on their right. Fits the story, doesn't it? Most of the kosher rules fit this story of them traveling 40 generations down one side and up the other. Now Moses was the one who put all this stuff together, merging the Hebrew beliefs before him with the Egyptian beliefs he had learned as the son of Pharoah.

DR: A lot of people say that Moses was actually a contemporary of Akhenaten, and that's where he got all of his monotheistic philosophy from.

JP: No, actually he got the monotheistic thing from his Hebrew parents. They already had the monotheistic connection before Egypt.

DR: Which had been given to Abraham.

JP: Right. If there was a connection between those two, it was synchronicity. But now you have this belief system which we now call the qaballah, the secret knowledge. And you have this rabbi class teaching the secret knowledge to the Chosen, and letting out the rest of the knowledge to everybody else. Now one of the chosen groups was the Nazarenes. This was a religious sect broken off from the Egyptians that went into the Holy Land with Moses and stayed. They always call Jesus the "Nazarene" because they claim he came from Nazareth. If you read Josephus, you will find there was no town of Nazareth during the time of Christ, but that Samson was a Nazarite. You know, Samson with the long hair, as in Merovingian? John the Baptist had long hair...

DR: What is the significance of that?

JP: Has you studied any of the Hasidic literature, the Zohar, the qaballah?

DR: I haven't read the Zohar. I've read a lot about the qaballah. But why don't you tell me?

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